question of the day Comments - Brought to you by JoeUser

Dr Guy on Where do you prefer to live?

Dr Guy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

There's nothing like digging in the dirt

Aint that the truth...

That's what the grave digger said.

MarcieMoo on Where do you prefer to live?

MarcieMoo — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I don't mind living in a smallish kind of town, as long as there would be some kind of yard for kids and pets. Big yard.

But I think ultimately we'll end up out in the country somewhere. I think my husband wants a mule too much to live in the city. What a dork.

dynamaso on Where do you prefer to live?

dynamaso — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I prefer to live in the country but at the moment, live in a city. My wife and I are planning on moving to a rural property, not unlike yours, in the future. We too would love one with nut and fruit trees and a big vegetable patch.

There's nothing like digging in the dirt

Aint that the truth...

erathoniel on Where do you prefer to live?

erathoniel — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Caves. Or city. What's the difference again?

EDIT: Oh, yeah, rain. Caves are always wet or dry, cities alternate.

Zoologist03 on Where do you prefer to live?

Zoologist03 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

The peace and quiet of the country...much prefer it to all the hustle and bustle of city life.

~Zoo

psychx on Where do you prefer to live?

psychx — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Well, I don't know about JU, but I seem to find myself in the laboratory all the time. Does that count?

KFC Kickin For Christ on Do you work well with your spouse?

KFC Kickin For Christ — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

For the most part yes. But not always.

We worked together in business for about 15 years and then went into ministry together. We had our moments but for the most part we did work well together. Sometimes we'd argue usually over stupid stuff. Most of the time it's coming from me. Sometimes we'd go thru the silent treatment stage but usually nothing lasted longer than a few hour or a day. Most people look at us as a couple that works very well together so I guess that's what mostly comes across and I'd agree with that.

I just wouldn't hang wallpaper with him. It's not pretty.

RoyLevosh on Where do you prefer to live?

RoyLevosh — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Country!

Dr Guy on Where do you prefer to live?

Dr Guy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Caves are good. No grass to mow.

Daiwa on Would you participate in a drug trial?

Daiwa — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

On one now. Trials of new medications are by definition risky. I can only hope she had the opportunity to be fully informed about the risks prior to agreeing to the trial; it's almost impossible to get into a trial now without that. My condolences to you on your loss.

Dr Guy on Would you participate in a drug trial?

Dr Guy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I go along with Jytheir. only as a last resort.

stubbyfinger on Would you participate in a drug trial?

stubbyfinger — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

If a brand new Hep C drug came out that they needed volunteers to try it out on, yes I would.

I take you haven’t had any luck with the combo therapy.

I had to do 60 weeks but it’s been 4 years still no sign of it in my blood.

My immune system is still revved up. I haven’t had so much as a sniffle for 7 years.

little-whip on Would you participate in a drug trial?

little-whip — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

My volunteering in a drug trial saved my life, literally.

I didn't make it into the trial, which was for a new sleeping pill, and I had already qualified in various ways. It was going to pay $750 for a five night trial, only two of which had to be spent in the lab. My final test to see if I could participate in this trial revealed a problem with my liver function, which was so bad that they actually sent me a TELEGRAM informing me to see a doctor ASAP as I was gravely ill.

This was how I first discovered that I had Hepatitis C, and although at that time there was no treatment available. But if I'd never known, (the disease often causes no symptoms until it's far too late) I'd have never thought to include that on my health history years later when visiting a new doctor for the first time. The new doctor then told me of a new treatment, one which happened to cure me, and I have been virus free for almost six years now.

I am sorry for your loss, but I wouldnt use it to condemn all drug trials. The sleeping pill that I signed up to test (but never got the chance to) was called Ambien.

foreverserenity on Would you participate in a drug trial?

foreverserenity — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

So sorry about your MIL, that is horrible! I don't know. Maybe.

Moderateman on Would you participate in a drug trial?

Moderateman — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

If a brand new Hep C drug came out that they needed volunteers to try it out on, yes I would.

Jythier on Would you participate in a drug trial?

Jythier — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I have participated in a drug trial, but there wasn't enough evidence to convict.

Oops, wrong kind.

No, I wouldn't, unless I had a disease it was targetted at and there was nothing left to try except that experimental drug..

straniera on Do you lie to your SO?

straniera — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

staniera: You *never* lie to your husband? Never?!?

Honestly I don't remember a time when I did. Also, I'm a terrible lier and he would know if I was doing it.

Texas Wahine on Do you lie to your SO?

Texas Wahine — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

staniera: You *never* lie to your husband? Never?!?

straniera on Do you lie to your SO?

straniera — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

My husband and I are best friends so we tell each other everything. At this point, most of our life is shared anyway, so there isn't much opportunity to lie.

dynamaso on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

dynamaso — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Late, I know, but clockwise...

Tova7 on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Tova7 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I throw the twist tie away and just spin the thang around and fold it under...

Ditto

Dr Guy on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Dr Guy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Clockwise.

little-whip on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

little-whip — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I twist it clock-wise, unless my left hand is sore

Besides, the last time I did the twist, in 2002, I tore the meniscus on the side and in the front of my left knee

Good grief, is there no topic you won't bring up your physical ailments on, trudy?

And to answer the question: clockwise.

SanChonino on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

SanChonino — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I would have to say that (when I have a tie) it's clockwise.

When the tie is gone, I spin the bread clockwise.

Now.

I want to hear this theory. I hope it's salacious.

Sugar High Elf on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Sugar High Elf — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I spin the bread counter clockwise, and twist the tie clockwise... when I use the tie. Once half the bread is gone, the tie usually is too. That's when I spin and tuck.

Trudygolightly on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Trudygolightly — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Besides, the last time I did the twist, in 2002, I tore the meniscus on the side and in the front of my left knee...it was the Peppermint Twist too

Trudygolightly on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Trudygolightly — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I twist it clock-wise, unless my left hand is sore, then I twist it counter-clock wise, sometimes I just tuck it under

Naw, usually put it in a bread box!

Just kidding, clock-wise for real

Shovelheat on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Shovelheat — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I throw the twist tie away and just spin the thang around and fold it under...

Texas Wahine on Come on Everybody Let's do the Twist

Texas Wahine — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

We don't have twist ties. We have little plastic clips that usually get lost and then I twist the end of the bag....clockwise...and tuck it under the bread.

KFC Kickin For Christ on Modern Day Shaman

KFC Kickin For Christ — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Hi QOD

I'm not sure about these guys myself. We have a friend who is a Chiropractor and many of our friends have gone to him. Most say, they ended up worse, including my husband and he keeps you coming. But I've never had the experience myself.

I do have another friend who goes regularly to another lady in another town and has had very good luck with her, but I'm almost thinking she was more than just a regular Chiropractor also. My friend raves about her so I guess if you find somebody who's diligent and knowledgable about the human body...go for it.

Dr Guy on Modern Day Shaman

Dr Guy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

A friend of mine went to his Chiropractor when he was having some back pains. His chiropractor called 911 and sent him to the emergency room telling him he was having a heart attack. He was! I guess these guys (at least some of them) know their stuff!

Myrrander on Modern Day Shaman

Myrrander — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Nice story. My chiropractor told me I just needed rib adjustments. Turns out I had spinal cancer. Glad your dog survived such charlatans. Cheers.

Dr Guy on If you found out you could, would you?

Dr Guy — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

think my biggest concern would be whether he is continuing the behavior.

That plus - will it bring closure for you? If he is continuing - there is no question he has to go down. If it will bring closure for you, then yes you have to do it. Those are the real pros and cons on this, and only you can answer the second - but the first is really as critical for the rest of your family as well - regardless of how they react to you going ahead with it. Since abusers usually (not always) go after those they are most familiar with - family members.

Zoologist03 on If you found out you could, would you?

Zoologist03 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

If I found out anyone was doing something like that to another person be they family or not, I'd be the one arrested because I'd beat the son of a bitch to within an inch of their life. If you can, prosecute the hell out of him.

~Zoo

little-whip on If you found out you could, would you?

little-whip — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Make him pay, if only to prevent the creation of more victims.

You don't think you were his ONLY one, do you?

Locamama on If you found out you could, would you?

Locamama — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I think my biggest concern would be whether he is continuing the behavior. You don't want him putting other's through what he put you through. It's a really hard situation. I can understand the family pressure and situation making it harder. I don't think I'm any help at all. I do think he should be held responsible.

Jewbu on Believers Question

Jewbu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Meditation is a wonderful tool as well. But you have to have something to meditate on.

That kind of meditation is useful for developing deeper understandings of a particular issue or to improve your sense of well-being. However, that type of meditation doesn't open you to the "voice" of God(it's not a literal voice). If you are meditating on something(such as in your example) then you are not letting go of yourself. The type of meditation I am referring to requires a state of mind without thought.

But you have to read it first Abe...to even question it right?

Excuse me for butting in here. There is a profound difference between meditation and contemplation on something. To meditate "on" something is not meditation, its thinking contemplatively about something. Meditation in its highest form is simply being present completely and immedisately. Present in the sense that the ego is completely uninvolved. There is no self, just presence.

In such a presence, the universe itself, including God are there with you and you know you, God, the universe are One. As far as the devil is concerned, this is a later concept taken from the Torah, Satan means nothing more than adversary. He is not a literal person. Milton had fun with this and later Christians took this poet's word as near gospel creating a netherworld of delusion to scare people with.

One should not read before practice, but rather practice then read. This is so because of what I recently posted in my blog about homeleaving. If we approach something with a mental idea, that mental idea distorts our perception. This is why we must be so incredibly careful interpreting the Hebrew scripture, the prophets, the psalms, etc. We do not want to create an ex post facto fallacy in our thinking.

Be well.

Jewbu on Believers Question

Jewbu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Damn I have a hard time with your name. How do you pronounce it and what is it about?

Hello Abe, It is a tad odd, isn't it? My name is "So Daiho". So means priest, Dai means great or large, and Ho means Dharma. So, in English, Priest Great Dharma. The So part can be dropped. Its like a title. I also answer to Harvey, Reverend, Roshi, Sensei, or Hey You!

When you say "just sitting" do you mean relaxation/contemplation, or "letting go of the self"? I have never managed to achieve "letting go" with traditional meditation. Although I haven't ever really tried that hard either.

I mean sitting a typt of zazen called "shikantaza. This word set means to whole heartedly hit the mark of seated meditation. Dogen suggests "think about not thinking. I say, right. OK. The practice is to sit quietly in a chair or on a cushion. Back upright and unsupported. Hands cradled left in right with thumbs lightly touching. Head should be erect and slightly tucked. Eyes open, mouth closed. We breath in through our nose and out through our nose. If we are in a chair, please be sure to sit on the edge of thye seat with your feet firmly planted on the floor.

Your attention should be alert, but not caught on anything. That is to say, you hear a nose and just notice "noise." You have a thought or feeling and just notice that thought or feeling. You do absolutely nothing with them. Rather like you are sitting in your car with the motor running. Don't put it in gear andthe motor can run all day and you won't go anywhere. This is good practice as it teaches us that we are not slave to our thoughts and feelings.

I would love to hear the details if it interests you to tell me. This is a subject that has been on my back-burner for a while, so I don't know anything about it except for my speculations/observations. Among the different types of Buddhist religions, Zen and the nebulous American Buddhism seem closest to the Buddha's teaching, at least as far as religious Buddhism goes.

In another post.

Be well.

Abe Cubbage on Believers Question

Abe Cubbage — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Hi Sodaiho,

Damn I have a hard time with your name. How do you pronounce it and what is it about?

I share the interest you have quoted above.

The actual practice of "just sitting" is not all that difficult (of course, thst is "my humble" opinion )

Abe Cubbage on Believers Question

Abe Cubbage — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

oh, I thought you said you haven't read it since you were a kid?

You asked me specifically about the gospels. I have not read those since catholic grade school.

that's a rumor....don't believe it.

I'm talking about my perceptions, not rumors.

Besides, how big can our God be if we believed this to be true?

Whether it is true of false, I don't see how it has any bearing on God. God is what he is regardless of what we think.

....How do you know who it is who is speaking to you?

I don't know, nor can anyone, but I do believe it.

Meditation is a wonderful tool as well. But you have to have something to meditate on.

That kind of meditation is useful for developing deeper understandings of a particular issue or to improve your sense of well-being. However, that type of meditation doesn't open you to the "voice" of God(it's not a literal voice). If you are meditating on something(such as in your example) then you are not letting go of yourself. The type of meditation I am referring to requires a state of mind without thought.

But you have to read it first Abe...to even question it right?

I have read enough of it to know for myself that the bible is a work of man. It isn't necessary to know something in its entirety to come to a valid conclusion about it.

Good luck to you as well.

KFC Kickin For Christ on Believers Question

KFC Kickin For Christ — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I have read parts of it throughout my life, but I never found it to be compelling.

oh, I thought you said you haven't read it since you were a kid? Anyhow...trying praying first.

how the Church may have altered his teaching to serve their own purposes.

that's a rumor....don't believe it. Besides, how big can our God be if we believed this to be true? As Christians, we believe he's been all this time protecting his word watching it every step of the way.

In my opinion, the way to know God is to do the best you can to listen(experience) to him, which is done by "letting go of the "self". Meditation is a good way to do this, but it is extremely difficult for most people--myself included.

I agree with the letting go of the self...but.....Question....How do you know who it is who is speaking to you? For Christians, we're told to "test" the spirits to see if it's from God or not. One way is to measure it, is against the word of God. So if what we're "hearing" runs contrary to God's word we know it can't be true. It's our plumb line so to speak. Meditation is a wonderful tool as well. But you have to have something to meditate on. For instance listen to this from Psalm 1.....

"Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sits in the seat of mockers.
But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night.
He is like a tree planted by streams of water
which yeilds its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither
Whatever he does prospers."

I hope it's ok to quote that....I know you're not hip on scripture but isn't that a beautiful Psalm worthy of meditation? IMO the Psalms as a whole is probably the best bit of literature of all time for meditation.

The only way to do that is to question everything, especially the word of God.

But you have to read it first Abe...to even question it right? Are you doing that?

For many of us Christians, if not all of us, we start out that way. We start out questioning and testing. Then after a while it proves itself to us and gets to the point where you just start to trust it...a little bit at a time until you realize one day that it's solid. It's sure and it tells us the truth. You start to realize everything in there is unbelieveably true. When you read the wise sayings of the Proverbs it can even hit you in the gut sometimes as you recognize yourself or those around you and it's exactly as it says it is. Then you are zealous like me to show others that it can be trusted by them as well.

After all, it's God's word, and I expect no less.

Good luck in your searching Abe, I enjoyed chatting with you.

Jewbu on Believers Question

Jewbu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

I have read parts of it throughout my life, but I never found it to be compelling. I have an intellectual interest in the bible because of some ideas I have about the teachings of Jesus, and how the Church may have altered his teaching to serve their own purposes. I have somewhat similar ideas about Buddha.

Hello Abe,

Thank you for your contributions along the way here. I share the interest you have quoted above. As to its application in Buddhism, I think its one of the reasons I sought refuge in Zen. The Theravadan and most of the Tibetan traditions rely too heavily on the scritures and spin great webs around them. Zen, it is said, stand as a teaching, outside of words and letters, relying primarily on the original practice of the Buddha: seated meditation. The other major difference is that we do not have "churches" in any real sense. Our Sanghas are organizations only insofar as geting the practical matters of buildings, communication, and other mundane things in order. There is no central authority. Well, maybe a little as with the Soto sect's line with Japan ad the "head" temples there. Still, we are each free to teach and practice pretty much as we wish.

The hardest part of meditation is resides in what we often think about meditation. The actual practice of "just sitting" is not all that difficult (of course, thst is "my humble" opinion )

Be well.

Abe Cubbage on Believers Question

Abe Cubbage — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

"Well you are aren't you? When you go against it, you are in a sense refuting it."

I thought you were using refute in the active sense, i.e. to prove wrong. Using it in such a passive way makes the word relatively meaningless.

"Maybe it has no meaning for you because you haven't read it? Why haven't you read it? Is it because you have no interest? Because I'm thinking you do have interest."

"you're kidding right? You think I have not checked this out? I have and let me assure you I am absolutely convinced after thoroughly reading history and the bible itself in it's entirety for many, many, many years that this book I hold in my hand is coming directly from God to man himself."

I think you may have misunderstood me. I was replying to your example of being before God and relying on what others have said about him. It's my position that using the bible as the primary way of knowing about God is "going on what other people have said." I understand that you do not see it that way. In my opinion, the way to know God is to do the best you can to listen(experience) to him, which is done by "letting go of the "self". Meditation is a good way to do this, but it is extremely difficult for most people--myself included.

Just an FYI to avoid potential confusion, I use the word "God" as a convenience. My idea of him probably doesn't have a lot of resemblance to your idea of him.

"So then you can't really go by your experiences can you?"

Of course we can, experiences are the only way we can know anything. The fact that they are fallible does not completely undermine them, but only serves to remind us that we can't ever "Know" anything. Personally I think that is a wonderful thing. I don't think many people would really like the alternative.

To be clear, I am saying that even if the bible is the absolute true word of God, we still can't "Know" the word of God. We can only do our best to understand. The only way to do that is to question everything, especially the word of God.

KFC Kickin For Christ on Believers Question

KFC Kickin For Christ — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Why do you think I want to refute it? You already know the bible has no religious meaning for me (or any religious text). How could I possibly have any interest in refuting it?

Well you are aren't you? When you go against it, you are in a sense refuting it. Maybe it has no meaning for you because you haven't read it? Why haven't you read it? Is it because you have no interest? Because I'm thinking you do have interest.

My response is that I have checked it out for myself whereas you have not. God's word is not found in anything written or said by man (bible et al). It

you're kidding right? You think I have not checked this out? I have and let me assure you I am absolutely convinced after throughly reading history and the bible itself in it's entirety for many, many, many years that this book I hold in my hand is coming directly from God to man himself. Absolutley. There is no way that man would have written this with all the flaws and such therein. This is not a book about man searching after God. It's a book about God searching after man.

My beliefs are based on my experiences when I go directly to the "source" (as far as humanly possible anyway).

I am not saying you are wrong. I am not attacking you or your beliefs. I do not consider my beliefs to be anymore "true" than yours, because I am fully aware of my inherant fallibility.

I know you're not and I am not attacking you either. I want the best for you. That's why I say what I say. But consider what you just said above. You said you base it upon your experience. But Abe, first of all can your experiences be trusted? What you believe and experience at 20, is not going to be the same at 40 or 60. They will change. God's word NEVER changes.

But then you say you are aware of your fallibility. This is correct. So then you can't really go by your experiences can you? I know I can't mine. I have to back my experiences up with the word of God to test myself. To see if I'm in line with God or not.

KFC Kickin For Christ on Believers Question

KFC Kickin For Christ — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

So, then KFC, you do not honor the sabbath and keep it holy? This is so strange. I thought Christians held the decalogue to be the word of God and something they should keep. Very confusing.

No, not really. The 10 commandments are good and they are of God. They are a perfect law that could not be kept by imperfect people. The Sabbath was never given to the Christians, and many Christians may not even know that. Some do, some don't. In the NT we are told to esteeem every day as holy to God. In all that we do daily we are to honor God. In the OT it was the beginning of a government for the new nation Israel. They would be set apart from the other nations. God chose Israel out of all the other nations for no special reason than he just did. This covenant they were under was conditional....the Mosaic Covenant....if they do this, then God would bless them and keep them in their land.

But they continually disobeyed God turning to idols and following the gods of the pagan nations. What's really interesting (and I'm studying this right now) is that God rubbed their noses in it finally after giving them chance after chance to change their ways. He had them taken into captivitiy by the capital of Idolatry, the Babylonians. For 70 years they lived right in the most pagan of all lands. God did this to cure them of their sin against him. One thing can be said about Israel today. They never went back to the idol worship after coming out of captivity.

But the New Covenant is not conditional. It's much like the Abrahamic and Davidic which were also not conditional. God said it. That was it. One of the best chapters in the Hebrew Scriptures outside of Isa 53 is Jeremiah 31. In it he promises that Israel will have a new Covenant and it's that Covenant that Christ spoke about and ushered in at the last supper. That's the Covenant Christians are now under. It's a covenant of Grace, not law. Paul talks alot about this in the book of Romans because it was hard for the new Jewish Christians to let go of the Old for the new.

lulapilgrim on Believers Question

lulapilgrim — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Hello Everyone,

We, Catholics, are about to enter the Sacred Triduum, that spiritually intense period when we commemorate the Passion and Death of Our Lord and Savior. The "Triduum" is Latin for three days and these are the three holiest days of the year. through the centuries, Christians have set these days apart as a time of extraordinary prayer, fasting and intense expectation.

Lent ends today, on Holy Thursday evening. Holy Thursday commemorates the day with the Mass of the Lord's Supper, when Christ instituted the Eucharist and the priesthood as well as the entry-way of the Lord into His Suffering, Dying and Rising. Good Friday is a day of fast and abstinence with reading the Passion according to St.John and public veneration of the Cross. Holy Saturday is is when we experience the "passing over" of Jesus from the darkness of death into new life. It begins after dark with the blessing of the new fire from which the Paschal candles are lit. Holy Saturday is a good day for prayer and good thoughts in quiet time with the Lord. Easter Sunday---Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia. Christ is risen. Alleluia. The Resurrection is a mystery of faith that goes beyond human reason. It can't be demonstrated empirically. Being finite creatures with finite minds, we don't know everything. We just know the tomb was empty.

After this one, I will not post again until next Monday. I will keep you all in prayer,and wish you Easter blessings and Happy Spring. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all.

Abe Cubbage on Believers Question

Abe Cubbage — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

well because if you're going to refute it, shouldn't you at least KNOW what you are refuting?

Why do you think I want to refute it? You already know the bible has no religious meaning for me (or any religious text). How could I possibly have any interest in refuting it?

I mean, if there really is a God (and of course I absolutely believe this to be true) and you are at the Great White Throne Judgment and he asks you what you did with his word what are you going to stammer? Ummmmm well, eh, God, I believed what the others said about you? I um...didn't....um.......check it out for myself. How was I supposed to know? What if he says....."well I sent others to tell you. But you chose not to listen to them. Why not?"

Here is my belief. It is not an attack on you or your beliefs. I am offering it as an alternative perspective, nothing more. You say "you are at the Great White Throne Judgment and he asks you what you did with his word what are you going to stammer? Ummmmm well, eh, God, I believed what the others said about you? I um...didn't....um.......check it out for myself." My response is that I have checked it out for myself whereas you have not. God's word is not found in anything written or said by man (bible et al). It is found by letting go of the "self". As Sodaiho said, the contemplatives know this. Religion is irrelevant. It is my belief that Jesus knew this and preached it, but over the years his words were altered by man (the same goes for Buddha et al.) My beliefs are based on my experiences when I go directly to the "source" (as far as humanly possible anyway).

I am not saying you are wrong. I am not attacking you or your beliefs. I do not consider my beliefs to be anymore "true" than yours, because I am fully aware of my inherant fallibility.

Abe Cubbage on Believers Question

Abe Cubbage — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

Jewbu on Believers Question

Jewbu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

So, then KFC, you do not honor the sabbath and keep it holy? This is so strange. I thought Christians held the decalogue to be the word of God and something they should keep. Very confusing.

KFC Kickin For Christ on Believers Question

KFC Kickin For Christ — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:11:18 -0400

My Bible says the the Sabbath is for God, not man. "...is a sabbath unto the Lord thy God." It is God who lays out the rules in general form, not men. So, I am a little confused KFC about this.

well pardon the reference Sodaiho but this is what I was quoting in my mind and it's in the gospel of Mark.

And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

I think his point being (and going also back to David) is that human need preceded ceremonial law. Now we have to also think what was God's purpose in instituting it?

We know that God didn't "need" rest. Why did he "bless and hallow" it? Was it for his sake or his creation's sake? We do know it was a covenant between Him and the Jews. It was like I've said before NOT a covenant between God and the NT church.

Expositors regularly quote as a parallel the words of Rabbi Simeon ben Menasya preserved in a rabbinical commentary on Exodus 31:14: "The sabbath is delivered to you; you are not delivered to the Sabbath."

I find that interesting in lieu of what Jesus said in the gospels.